Seminary Dropout 50: Margot Starbuck on God, Writing & Public Speaking

Margot Starbuck

Throughout the years Margot Starbuck has worn many hats, she’s been a chaplain to people with intellectual and physical disabilities, she painted and sold plungers, she’s swam next to a guy with epilepsy so he wouldn’t drown. I did say she wore many hats.
Today you probably know her from one or more of her many books, her contributions to publications like Today’s Christian Woman or Red Letter Christianity, or maybe you’ve heard her one of her many speaking engagements. Margot speaks about God’s love with fresh honesty, love and compassion.

 

Some memorable moments from the show:

I think a lot of us are walking around just slathered in shame. Tweet: 'I think a lot of us are walking around just slathered in shame' -Margot Starbuck http://ctt.ec/daSK2+

#AdultsDontThinkLittleKidsCanWalkBigDogsButTheyTotallyCanTweet: #AdultsDontThinkLittleKidsCanWalkBigDogsButTheyTotallyCan http://ctt.ec/w9rFy+

Karate belts & ribbon cost money, words are free.Tweet: 'Karate belts & ribbon cost money, words are free.' http://ctt.ec/5D7bu+



Margot’s latest book is Not Who I Imagined: Surprised by a Loving God.

From our earliest days we long for love and acceptance. First from our parents, blood pressure then from peers, and eventually from romantic interests. We look into their faces, searching for a smile, a look that says, I love you exactly as you are. Don’t change. We long for the same gracious acceptance from God. But despite the Christian gospel of unearned grace and unconditional love, too many of us feel as though we’re still not quite good enough as we are. We can’t believe that God accepts us. And often this is because those who represent God to us on earth–our parents, other Christians–have not looked upon us as we are with expressions of unrelenting love. -Publishers Description-


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Hey @JenHatmaker, I’d love to hear you on Seminary Dropout! #JenOnSDTweet: Hey @JenHatmaker, I'd love to hear you on Seminary Dropout! #JenOnSD


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RSVP or just show up here.


 

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5 Reasons I’m Not an Evangelical (and 5 reasons I am)

Before I started blogging I had a big tent view of evangelicalism. Basically anyone who claimed to follow Jesus as their Lord & Savior, and gave some kind of authority to the Bible, I considered an evangelical. I’ve grown to realize, this isn’t most people’s definition of evangelical. This is important because in the past on this blog and on Seminary Dropout I’ve described myself as an evangelical. I don’t know if I’ll keep using that term to describe myself. It’s not that my theology has changed so much as I’ve either had the wrong definition, or the definition has evolved into something else.

Either way I think it’s important to outline the ways I am and am not an evangelical.

1. So far as being an evangelical means reading the
Bible as a flat document absent of thematic messages
throughout, I am not an evangelical. 
Tweet: So far as being an evangelical means reading theBible as a flat document absent of thematic messages... http://ctt.ec/AcFBr+

So far as being an evangelical means believing
in the authority of God through scripture,
I am an evangelical.

kj

My friend Micah J. Murray has pointed out in the past, the problem of ‘the Bible clearly says’ mentality. The problem being that when that phrase is invoked, the Bible many times does not clearly say what that person thinks it means when taken in the context of the Bible as a whole. We can take isolated verses and sentences from the Bible and construct a theology that fits our worldview just fine, but the Bible demands to be read differently.

This does not however mean that I don’t believe in the authority of scripture. As N.T. Wright says in his book ‘The Last Word: Scripture and the Authority of God- Getting Beyond the Bible Wars’,

…the phrase ‘authority of scripture’ can make Christian sense only if it is a shorthand for ‘the authority of the triune God, exercised somehow through scripture.’

Almost all of the following reasons are based upon this first one.

 

2. So far as being an evangelical means seeing science
as the enemy of faith or even rejecting the bulk of science
on grounds of faith, I am not an evangelical. 

So far as being an evangelical means reading the creation
story the way it intends to be read and seeing the power,
glory, and goodness of God in that story, I am an evangelical.

file0001753589015You may have heard the logic; the book of Genesis tells the story of God creating the universe and the first man Adam, Jesus refers to Adam as a historical figure (a dubious claim), therefore if you don’t believe that God created the world and Adam in 6 24-hour days a few thousand years ago, then you have to believe that Jesus was either a liar or mistaken, and was certainly not the messiah.
From my view, a failure to read the scriptures as the type of literature in which they were meant to be written is the culprit here. The creation story was never intended to be a historical document.
As for Jesus referring to Adam as a historical figure, I think that’s quite a leap. You know how you and your friends get together and talk about Harry Potter, or Don Draper, or Walter White? And you know how when you say their names you’re always sure to say ‘Remember when fictional character, Harry Potter, battled other fictional character, Voldemort?’ or ‘Hey can you believe how much Don, who is in no way a real person, drank on Mad Men last night?!’ or ‘Wow I can’t believe the invented person of Walter White, IS the danger?!’ I think you see where I’m going with this.

 

3. So far as being an evangelical means keeping doors
closed to women in the church and at home, I’m not an evangelical.

So far as being an evangelical means following the Bible’s
example of putting people in roles in the church and at
home based on gifting rather than gender, I am an evangelical. 

Because I believe in God’s authority via scriptures, I must acknowledge the biblical witness of women leaders in the church such as Junia, and taking seriously Paul’s admonishment for believers to stay single if possible, which logically means that it is impossible for God’s only desire for women is that they be wives and mothers.

 

4. So far as being an evangelical means participating in
culture wars that make further enemies of the people
Jesus came to love, I am not an evangelical.

So far as being an evangelical means showing people the
love of Jesus no matter what, even if that means giving
up certain ‘rights’ as Americans, I am an evangelical.

The recent Hobby Lobby debacle  serves as the perfect example. Some might be surprised to know that I actually have somewhat ‘conservative’ opinions about the case.  My apprehension comes in when the cost of standing up for certain rights, even when going through the proper channels, only further ignites the culture wars and gives people like those Jesus befriended reason to become the enemies to Christians. To be clear, I’m not calling for HL or anyone else to violate their conscience, what I am saying is that perhaps it should be more important to refuse to stoke the fires of a culture war, than own a multi-million dollar business. Perhaps the strongest Christian witness would be to close up shop and turn down future millions rather than make an enemy out our neighbors. The end doesn’t justify the means.

5. So far as being an evangelical means refusing to interact
with theology that doesn’t match up perfectly with your own,
I’m not an evangelical.

So far as being an evangelical means believing in Jesus
first and allowing him to dictate what else you believe, thus
freeing you to interact with theology that you don’t believe
in without fear because you are above else rooted in Jesus,
I am an evangelical.

If being an evangelical means that above all else Jesus is Lord & Savior, than it only makes sense that nothing else can be, including certainty. I believe that Jesus is who he says he is as much as a human can believe anything. Most other things I believe in with an open hand. We all have biases against certain theologies and beliefs but if those biases keep us from studying and engaging, that doesn’t make us faithful, it makes us anti-intellectual. If we’re secure in our beliefs (chiefly belief in Jesus), then we won’t have fear when confronted with other beliefs. We also must believe that God gave us our intellect so that we can discern between good and bad beliefs, not avoid them all together.

These aren’t the only issues I wrestle with concerning evangelicalism, but they’re the major ones. Now if you do hear me refer to myself as an evangelical, you’ll know just what I do mean and what I don’t mean.

Have You Accepted President Obama As Your Personal Lord & Savior?

In episode 19 of Seminary Dropout I talked with Scot McKnight about a book he had just edited and published with Joe Modica called ‘Jesus is Lord, Caesar is Not’. The book was an evaluation of Empire Criticism.

believe

Empire Criticism as McKnight explains in the introduction ‘refers to developing an eye and ear for the presence of Rome and the worship of the emperor in the lines and between the lines of New Testament writings.’

McKnight goes on to give an example – ‘A simple reading of Luke 2 reveals Luke using the following terms for Jesus-Savior and Lord, and alongside those terms are the terms of good news (gospel) and peace. Now it so happens that empire critics call to our notice that these are the precise terms used of Caesar in Rome, the very rems broadcast throughout the empire on declarations and in letters and on countless inscriptions visible in all major cities in the empire.’

Does the Bible contain criticism of the concept of empire (namely the Roman empire in the case of the NT writers)? Most definitely. Was this the primary purpose of the gospel? By no means. The primary purpose of the gospel is to tell the story of God reconciling creation to himself. Those are generally the findings of JLCN: Empire Criticism is there, but it’s not the New Testaments primary purpose.

Never-the-less to say ‘Jesus is Lord’ was to necessarily say ‘Caesar is not’! The first objective of the gospel writers was to proclaim the rightful place of Jesus first and foremost, but the purposeful inference is that if Jesus is Lord, Caesar can not be.

It’s as if their allegiance to Jesus is burning so bright that all other allegiances fall apart in it’s flame.

During my talk with McKnight in episode 19 I had thought (but not a thought that I could articulate on the fly and formulate a statement to bounce off of him). My thought was that, at first glance you might think that the young Christian wearing a Che Guevara shirt with dread locks mouthing about how the government needs be overturned is the exact type that needs to read the message of JLCN, and that might be true. However, I think that person may be more of a straw man, than a real life application for most of us. I mean seriously, I don’t run in to that guy very often. I do run in to Christ followers who are irate because Barack Obama has failed to bring about peace (most often through violence), prosperity, and joy to their lives. In fact, my Facebook feed is full of these people.

There’s a great C.S. Lewis quote – ‘Humility isn’t thinking less of yourself, it’s thinking of yourself less.’

In the same vain, maybe to follow Christ means not thinking less of the empire, so much as thinking of the empire less. Because frankly, thinking less of the empire gives the empire more power than it merits. Thinking less of the empire may indicate that we’ve given the empire a place in our hearts that it doesn’t deserve or belong. You can only be profoundly disappointed in something that you have profoundly trusted in. I think constant preoccupation with politicians and government may reveal that we’d rather have accepted them as Lord and Savior. Granted, we may not see them as a good Lord and Savior, but we only become so angry because we have fervently looked to them for things that Jesus was meant to provide.

Don’t hear me only picking on the religious-right either. The same vitriol was there during the last administration and we’ll surely see it in the next.

The problem is not what we want from our government so much as it is a disproportionate faith that it can fulfill those longings on a level that only Christ has the power to fulfill.

Seminary Dropout 45: Kerry Weber, Author of ‘Mercy in the City’

kerry weberKerry Weber is a Mercy Associate and Managing Editor of America magazine. She is an alumna of the Mercy Volunteer Corps and of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. She lives in New York City.

The Corporal Works of Mercy are 7 acts. Six come from Matthew 25:34-40 and the final one comes from the Book of Tobit.

1. To feed the hungry.
2. To give drink to the thirsty.
3. To clothe the naked.
4. To harbour the harbourless.
5. To visit the sick.
6. To visit the imprisoned.
7. To bury the dead.

Kerry had an apiphany when she realized she never did any of these things. Then, she set out to change that.

 

affiliate link

Mercy In The City is Kerry’s real life tale of loving God by serving the homeless, meeting with those in prison, giving away clothing, and more. Oh yeah, and the entire time she also gave up sugar and alcohol!! It’s fun, honest, and most of all heartfelt.


Be sure to check out sermonsmith.com


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Seminary Dropout 44: Preston Sprinkle, Author of Fight: A Christian Case for Nonviolence

PrestonSprinklePreston Sprinkle is a New York Times bestselling coauthor, he also has a PhD in New Testament from Aberdeen University and currently teaches at Eternity Bible College, and will be moving to Boise, Idaho with his family to help EBC establish a new campus there.

You can find Preston online at PrestonSprinkle.com.

affiliate link

Preston joins me to talk about his latest book Fight: A Christian Case for Non-Violence.Preston set out to see what the Bible had to say about violence, and what he found was shocking.

On the show we talk about…

-how the early church  felt about  war.
-what Jesus said about violence.
-some myths about violence in the Old Testament.
-some common objections from Christians about nonviolence.


Remember to take the Seminary Dropout Survey if you haven’t already.

Also remember that if you want to hear Michael Gungor on Seminary Dropout, then go tell him on twitter by tweeting ‘Hey  I’d love to hear you on  with .’ If you don’t have twitter you could go to the Gungor facebook page and say the same thing (dropping the twitter handles).


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Seminary Dropout 43: David Leo Schultz, Director & Producer of ‘Ragamuffin’

dls

David Leo Schultz has had a little bit of experience in show business, even worked with heavy weights like Chevy Chase. Lucky for us David is also a fan of the music and life of Rich Mullins, so much so that he approached Dave Mullins (Rich’s brother) about making a movie about Rich’s life. David talks about that interesting first meeting with Dave, how he originally got shot down, but then was invited for a car ride. David later found out that unbeknownst to him the fate of the entire movie hinged on that car ride. The rest is history.

(affiliate link)

I won’t go into the movie too much in these show notes, I already wrote a review and plus, you need to hear all of the details from David himself in the podcast.

If you’re interested in the Ragamuffin Retreats we mentioned in the podcast, you can find out more info here.


*Contest*

I have a DVD of Ragamuffin that could be yours. To enter to win, go to Seminary Dropout in iTunes, subscribe & leave a review, then leave a comment below indicating if you did one or both of those things. You’ll be entered to win once or twice based on those factor. I’ll announce the winner in the next weeks episode.


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Like I said on the show, we’re trying something new. I’m enlisting your help in launching twitter campaigns to get the attention of some hard to reach people who would make great guests on Seminary Dropout. The first person is Michael Gungor. To help me book Michael tweet:
“Hey  I’d love to hear you on  with .”

Guest Post by Stephen Carter

Stephen Carter is a writer, husband, father, & friend. He lives in Portland with his wife Rachel, and 2 beautiful girls, Avery & Rylee. When he’s not reading or writing, he enjoys a local micro-brew, or a strong cup of coffee. He is passionate about literature, theology, justice, Daniel Day-Lewis movies, U2 records (but with strong reservations about No Line on the Horizon), and believes that the right words can change the world. He can be found on: Twitter: @stephenedwardc Web:stephenecarter.wordpress.com Email: stephenecarter@icloud.com. Stephen’s site was originally attacked by some kind of porn virus and didn’t have anywhere to post this. I offered to post it here as a guest post and he obliged. I’m happy to say that his site is back & it’s porn free. You should check it out – stephenecarter.com

 

It is cold out. One of those desert nights that just slightly stings the inside of my nose as I inhale, each breath a sharp reminder of my existence. I pull my cloak tighter around my shoulders, straining to get near the fire. This is not a dream, as much as I wish it was.


I’m trying to push his words out of my mind. Trying to think of anything else. 

“3 times.”

He clearly wasn’t in his right mind. Who knows how long it’s been since he has slept. It’s like he doesn’t know who I am anymore. One minute we’re sitting together sharing the Passover meal, the next he’s talking about his blood and body and betrayal. One minute we’re sitting in Gethsemane, praying with him, the next he’s being arrested and dragged away. Judas. Betrayal. He said this would happen. 

The wind kicks up, the fire flickers, and we all push closer. Soon the sun will be up, and I can get away from this crowd. 

What are they doing to him in there? He’s been with them for hours. How long could this possibly take? What wrong has he done? 

“You were with Jesus. The man from Galilee.”

Her voice is high pitched. Soft, but pointed. She knows who she is talking to. She is a servant girl, but her words are sharp. Not accusatory, but direct. 

“I dont’ know what you’re talking about.” 

The words escape my lips before I even realize I am saying them. Will I be lumped in with him? Will they drag me off into the Sanhedrin along side of him? Heaven knows what they would do to me in there. He’s a Rabbi. I’m a fisherman. They certainly won’t show me as much mercy as they’re showing him. Forgive me Jesus. 

I breathe into my hands, pull my cloak tighter, and head toward another one of the fires. Standing around with that servant girl isn’t going to do me any good. She’ll just keep pressing the issue, and I don’t need that right now. My Rabbi is on trial. I can’t focus on much else. 

“This fellow was with Jesus of Nazareth.” 

Another servant girl. This time her words came louder, lightly laced with accusation.

“I promise, I don’t know the man!”

What am I doing? I got out of a boat in the middle of a storm to go to this man. I cut a man’s ear off for him. I have given my entire life to this Rabbi and his teachings for the last three years. What am I gaining by denying that? They’ve seen me with him. They know who I am. Forgive me Jesus. 

The sun is beginning to wake. I can finally start to see without the aid of the fire, albeit not well. I shake a rock from my sandal and find an unattended fire. It’s starting to die, but still, the warmth is comforting. 

“You’re one of them!”
“You were with him!”
“Your accent gives you away.”

There are a multitude of them now. They’ve congregated around my fire and are unrelenting in their accusation. They know who I am. If word spreads much more, they may drag me in there. I can’t fight them all. They’ll overtake me. I’m in trouble if I don’t get out of here. 

“Damnit I swear to God I don’t know him!” 

The words hadn’t finished leaving my tongue before I heard it. The rooster. 

“3 times.” 

As I back away from them, the crowd parts, and I see him. They’re taking him to Pilate. Bloody and bruised, his eyes pierce me. He’s not angry with me. This look is different. It almost looks like pity. He is being drug from the Sanhedrin, has been beaten and who knows what else, and he is pitying me. 

I quickly turn my gaze. I can’t. It’s too much. My entire body is shaking. The tears are hot, salty, and when paired with the nausea, my soul feels like it is dying. I wretch. What have I done? Dear God what have I done? 

He was right. He said this would happen. Everything he’s said would happen, has happened. 

Forgive me Rabbi. I still love you. I really do. 
…stephen carter…

Upcoming Seminary Dropout Guests

For those interested in seeing who the upcoming guests are beforehand and posing possible questions for the guests, here’s your chance.

Here is everyone I currently have booked. If you have a question for a guest, leave a comment with 1.) You’re name. 2.) The guests name. & 3.) Your question for that guest.

Jen Hatmaker

Jennie Allen

Cherith Norling

John Mark Mcmillan